So Sad.

So sad to see this happening and people can still believe that there is not a real problem that needs to change.
 
Unfortunately, it's not a US problem. We aren't in the top 20 polluters (based on what chart you want). It's a China, India, Indonesia problem. They are the ones polluting the most and they are close to the Reef. We can make all the changes we want, but unless the major offenders change things are going to get worse.
 
Unfortunately, it's not a US problem. We aren't in the top 20 polluters (based on what chart you want). It's a China, India, Indonesia problem. They are the ones polluting the most and they are close to the Reef. We can make all the changes we want, but unless the major offenders change things are going to get worse.
+1
 
Unfortunately, it's not a US problem. We aren't in the top 20 polluters (based on what chart you want). It's a China, India, Indonesia problem. They are the ones polluting the most and they are close to the Reef. We can make all the changes we want, but unless the major offenders change things are going to get worse.

Unless I’m missing something, coral bleaching is caused by heat stress rather than water pollution. As the US is the second largest emitter of greenhouses gases, I think changes that we make would make a difference.
 
It's always been more than just climate. We've been watching the reefs take stressor after stressor for decades: sedimentation, rising temps, acidification... the reality is that things won't be getting better any time soon.
 
Unfortunately, it's not a US problem. We aren't in the top 20 polluters (based on what chart you want). It's a China, India, Indonesia problem. They are the ones polluting the most and they are close to the Reef. We can make all the changes we want, but unless the major offenders change things are going to get worse.

A lot of our trash gets sent to these places to be dealt with. That trash gets reported in their numbers rather than ours.
 
A lot of our trash gets sent to these places to be dealt with. That trash gets reported in their numbers rather than ours.

My point is that they are the ones dumping trash in the ocean. They are the ones burning "dirty" coal and polluting the rivers.

If they are buying our trash, they shouldn't be dumping it in the ocean!
 
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I don’t get how sending out trash there is cost effective. Wouldn’t that be pretty pricey?
 
Indonesia buys some recyclable waste from us, but a good portion of the stuff is not recycled and ends up in the ocean. Many western countries apparently ship their junk there. Here is a short article on the topic.

 
Recycling programs were historically funded by sending the materials to Asian countries (mostly China) who paid for the recycled materials because the commodities had monetary value. The only reason they had value to these countries is because the recycled commodity price at resale exceeded the cost of shipping to Asia and the labor and capital costs required to process the material.

China has made the decision to subsidize and build their domestic chemical industry and essentially stopped all imports of recycled material.

So now the formerly free - or even profitable - recycling business has now become a cost to trash collection companies, and by extension, you. This is one reason why the cost of trash collection is increasing.

In fact, recycling has become so expensive, that many towns are considering ending their recycling programs.

The trash collection companies now have to charge a fee to recycle, because instead of putting material in a landfill or incinerator which is cheaper, they have to build facilities, purchase machines, and pay people to process the material and sell it for less than the cost of recycling. The difference between what they can sell the material for, and their cost is the excess fee that they are now charging you. Again, recycling used to actually reduce disposal costs, but now it increases them.

Perversely, there is not enough recycling capacity in the country to actually recycle everything that is put in bins, so a large percentage of it is landfilled or incinerated anyway, but you still pay the recycling fee! So enjoy paying for something that you aren't receiving.

And yes, the vast majority of the trash in the ocean comes from Asian countries that intentionally dump into rivers. This is why plastic straw bans in the U.S. are not going to fix anything at all. You can go on YouTube and watch dump trucks full of trash dumping right into rivers, which is common practice.

I have been an investor in these companies as a professional for years. I know all of the executives and I know this business well. But I will also include many sources since some people will think I am making this up:









Key quote from this article, which is behind a paywall:

"Let's say you recycle 100 percent in all of North America and Europe," Ramani Narayan, a chemical engineer at Michigan State, tells National Geographic. "You still would not make a dent on the plastics released into the oceans."

 
I don’t get how sending out trash there is cost effective. Wouldn’t that be pretty pricey?

Because of our trade deficit with Asia, many boats come here filled with goods and return empty. An empty boat is not a good thing, so you take anything you can put on it. Sometimes that is trash. The cost of shipping on a barge on a return journey to Asia is very, very low.

Most trash is not sent overseas. Recyclables used to be, but aren't nearly as much as they used to be (see post above).

The trash that is sent overseas is done for many reasons.

Because of NIMBYism, people will not allow new landfills to be permitted here. Furthermore, most landfill permits have annual volume limits, even if the thing is empty, which further reduces supply. So less supply with increasing demand equals higher cost.

Because disposal costs are high in the U.S., sometimes it makes sense to send it overseas. What happens far more commonly however, is states like MA send trash out on rail to be dumped in the middle of the country, where it is accepted.

But for certain waste - like electronics - it is sent overseas to countries with lax environmental standards. Because there are no environmental standards, the stuff ends is disposed of improperly and ends up polluting the ground and waters as the toxic remains are leeched back into the environment.
 
Only good solution here is to reduce the amount of stuff we put in our trash and recycle bins. Not easy to do.
 
Only good solution here is to reduce the amount of stuff we put in our trash and recycle bins. Not easy to do.

Trash is not really the problem that people think it is:


I'm not saying we shouldn't reduce our impact...my family of three produces a single 13 gallon bag of trash (often not even full) and half a recycling bin of trash every week, which is substantially less than most of my neighbors.

But the impact actually needs to be put in context too.

When all of the trash produced in the United States over the next 100 years can be fit into a 250 square mile landfill, when the U.S. covers 3,800,000 square miles, it doesn't seem like such a huge problem, does it?

We could produce literally 100 times more trash annually than we do today, for the next 100 years, and it would take up a little over half a percent of the total land mass of the country.

Given that global populations will peak sometime in the next 80 years, there are 1000's of years to figure out a better solution.
 
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