Struggling getting pH up and keeping it there

[spectral_ranger]

Have had a Reefer 250 setup for several months now, aiming for SPS dominant. Have my Alk, Ca, Mg stable where I want them, but having trouble getting pH over 8 and staying there. It had been around 7.7-7.8. A couple weeks ago, I setup a chaeto reactor (Poseidon Reef Systems) on a reverse photo period, and started using kalk in my ATO reservoir. Saw a definite bump from the kalk, and MAYBE a bit from the chaeto, hard to know. Put a pH plot below for the past few weeks with significant events:

#1: Add kalk to my ATO reservoir.
#2: Starting running the chaeto reactor.
#3: Family leaves on vacation.
#4: Monitoring while on vacation, I'm stoked that measures I've taken seem to be working great.
#5: We return from vacation (six of us in single family house).
#6: The "what the heck?!?" feelings kick-in as I watch the pH fall off a cliff.

I'm feeling like it's gotta be the CO2 from everyone being back in the house (warm in New England, house sealed up with AC on). Or is it? Is there something else I should be doing? Do I need to figure out how to get an air line from outside to my skimmer (don't think wife will like me drilling a hole through the wall to the outside)? Really struggling with pH, any help appreciated!

Oh, and I did harvest a big ball of chaeto from the reactor, seems to be growing great, for whatever that's worth.

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

I have similar issues here. I ran some tubing to my window and have it sucking air from outside. Not much of a difference but it does help a little bit. Since April 16 through today my average is 7.93
Coral grows just fine, maybe not crazy but definitely grows. System is 90 percent SPS as well.

 

[ChrisV]

I'm sorry to say it but you're going to need your kids to move out. It may be the only practical way to get that pH bump...

On the other hand, with this option on the table, maybe the hole in the wall sounds more appealing!

I guess you could try CO2 scrubbing or sodium hydroxide dosing.

 

[ChrisV]

To answer your actual question, yes, it's from the exhaled CO2.

 

[CaPow]

I'm sorry to say it but you're going to need your kids to move out. It may be the only practical way to get that pH bump...

On the other hand, with this option on the table, maybe the hole in the wall sounds more appealing!

I guess you could try CO2 scrubbing or sodium hydroxide dosing.

Music to my ears. Now do I post my kids in the for sale/free forum? Or the not reef related forum?

 

[Mixed Reefer]

I was having same trouble when I started my tank up. Couldn’t get PH above 8. I made some changes to my setup such as outside air, scrubber, chaeto reactor and more surface agitation. This bumped my PH up to 8.3-8.5. The outside air was noticeable. I think @Cpage101 had mentioned using more house plants to help.

 

[ChrisV]

Music to my ears. Now do I post my kids in the for sale/free forum? Or the not reef related forum?

Pretty sure that's the non reef related. Sometimes I see people add a little note to their post asking mods to move the thread if it happens to be in the wrong place. Not the worst idea if you are ever unsure.

 

[spectral_ranger]

Heck, I'd trade the kids for some good frags... ;p At least one will be going back to college in a few weeks, though she's pretty tiny so her CO2 contribution is minimal!

CO2 scrubbing and sodium hydroxide dosing sound troublesome, but will check it out. The scrubber must be for the house, not tank, right? Ah, I see the tank version on BRS. Doesn't look TOO bad, just tired of all the reactors and crap. Getting crowded in the cabinet! Easier than my idea of somehow rigging a cylinder of compressed air and feeding it to the skimmer.

Interesting idea on the houseplants, though I'd think it'd take a lot of plants. And never been one to take care of them well!

I've wondered how people do airlines with windows. Do you leave window open a crack? And poke it through the screen? If window closed, how do you not pinch the airline? And do ants and other random detritus and whatnot crawl in and/or jam up the line?

 

[ChrisV]

Heck, I'd trade the kids for some good frags... ;p At least one will be going back to college in a few weeks, though she's pretty tiny so her CO2 contribution is minimal!

CO2 scrubbing and sodium hydroxide dosing sound troublesome, but will check it out. The scrubber must be for the house, not tank, right? Ah, I see the tank version on BRS. Doesn't look TOO bad, just tired of all the reactors and crap. Getting crowded in the cabinet! Easier than my idea of somehow rigging a cylinder of compressed air and feeding it to the skimmer.

Interesting idea on the houseplants, though I'd think it'd take a lot of plants. And never been one to take care of them well!

I've wondered how people do airlines with windows. Do you leave window open a crack? And poke it through the screen? If window closed, how do you not pinch the airline? And do ants and other random detritus and whatnot crawl in and/or jam up the line?

Hey, every human counts! (Dogs too.). One down is a step in the right direction.

Sodium hydroxide is a pretty dangerous chemical, but it should help a little. I'm sure you can find a Trident testing plot of a person who switched to dosing NaOH somewhere. The idea is that the hydroxide reacts with CO2 in the water and forms carbonate (alkalinity).

CO2 scrubbers are for the tank not the house. They go on the skimmer intake and can operate at least two ways. Method 1) the skimmer intake pulls air from your home through the scrubber (passively) before it enters the skimmer. Method 2) the skimmer is set to recirculate air through the scrubber, so the air that goes into the skimmer as bubbles is goes through the scrubber again and again. The problem with method 1 is that you will burn through CO2 scrubber media like there is no tomorrow. The problem with method 2 is that it has greater potential for errors. There are threads about this on r2r, so I will let someone who has actually done it speak up. They are a super cool method, but everything I've read about them suggests that scrubbers are a bit of a pain when run efficiently (method 2).

I could be mistaken, but I think the amount of CO2 taken up by house plants is sort of a splash in the bucket compared to the amount of CO2 people exhale. I'm sure some plants are better than others and you could plant a jungle around your tank, etc.

As for windows, what I have done in the past is to put some rubber weather stripping on the windowsill and cut a notch for the tube. You would leave the screen partially open. At the top of the bottom pane of the window you will need to put a barrier to keep keep bugs from getting in. I've found that paper towels that have been accordion folded into a strip and trimmed to fit work well, and are not too noticable. As for dust ants and other wee beasties getting into your intake air line, i'm going to date myself here because I haven't done this in a while...I've used a 35mm film canister with lots of holes drilled in it that I filled with loosely packed polyfill as sort of an intake prefilter and skimmer intake silencer. It went over the end of the intake line. No reason you couldn't make something like this with pvc. That being said, I don't know if I actually NEEDED do make the air filter. Might have been overkill. I'm more concerned about pollution from the air getting into my tank...but I live in an area that's "thickly settled."

 

[spectral_ranger]

Thanks Chris, appreciate the details!! Have done some more reading up on the scrubbers and have an order in for one. We'll see if it makes a big difference... and at what cost re: media usage. If it gets pH consistently over 8, I'd probably be ok with the cost. In the meantime, going to see what it'd take to jerry rig an airline from a casement window that's like 8' away. There's also an attic ceiling access door near the tank... Running a line across the ceiling and down the wall might be pretty hinky, but better than hacking at the window.

 

[Groot]

Single dad and when I have my three little ones over for the weekend my ph drops down to 7.53

 

[ChrisV]

Single dad and when I have my three little ones over for the weekend my ph drops down to 7.53

When I was a kid my dad used to jokingly tell us to stop breathing so much, because we were fogging up the car windows.

 

[Groot]

Does that aquachar really work with bringing ph up. I’m very skeptic of it.

 

[ChrisV]

Does that aquachar really work with bringing ph up. I’m very skeptic of it.

I am EXTREMELY skeptical about it. I've seen folks make the argument that it does no more than typical carbon in terms of pH elevation (which I think is not much), but I've also seen folks swear by it. There was one YouTuber in particular who said it raised her pH substantially, and the tank photos made me think she wasn't full of it.

If you do try it, please consider trying it in a very controlled way (e.g. don't start opening your windows a few weeks after adding it, or initiate other pH modulating measures) and post your observations!

 

[ChrisV]

Thanks Chris, appreciate the details!! Have done some more reading up on the scrubbers and have an order in for one. We'll see if it makes a big difference... and at what cost re: media usage. If it gets pH consistently over 8, I'd probably be ok with the cost. In the meantime, going to see what it'd take to jerry rig an airline from a casement window that's like 8' away. There's also an attic ceiling access door near the tank... Running a line across the ceiling and down the wall might be pretty hinky, but better than hacking at the window.

To me it's more than just the cost-- I just hate the idea of signing up for yet another routine maintenance task. Call me lazy. pH consistently above 8 would be very nice though.

You should post a thread about your scrubber set up and with the results. Could be very useful for folks here.

 

[Groot]

My ph swings so much. I just ordered a co2 scrubber. I feel like already tried this method in the past and it was more of a pain going to try it again.

 

[Cpage101]

put some plants in your room with the aquarium. my house is closed up tight with Ac running. plants and lots of surface agitation

 

[Groot]

I barely can keep my kids alive I’m really bad with plants. How many people in your house hold?

 

[Cpage101]

I have a bay window with about 10 good sized plants

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

It's not pretty but works for me.