we could all use carbon ... buy in bulk ...
- Thread starter jacko
- Start date
Rick and Sandy
Working hard: still poor!
Interested
joefitz
Non-member
I'd buy a pretty significant quantity just for myself. I started looking into this a while ago and there are definitely sources where we can save a lot of money -- the question is what specs are we looking for on the carbon. I tried to get hard data from some of the vendors marketing "reef carbon", Kent in particular, but they haven't been particularly helpful yet although they at least Kent responded to my inquiry. Their response is posted below (I never received any additional information after this message):
Hi Joe,
Thanks for your inquiry. There are indeed differences in the grades of activated carbon available in the aquarium market. Some are honestly very effective, and some are not. Effectiveness in this sense would essentially come down to the ability to remove organic compounds from the system with regards to the actual amount of carbon used keeping time and flow rate constant for all samples. In addition, the carbon should have a relatively negligible effect on the pH of the water and preferably would release little to no measurable phosphate; these last two points are not so much a measurement of effectiveness, but rather are the types of qualities that we as hobbyists look for in an activated carbon. If you're interested in getting some basic information regarding the characteristics of different grades of activated carbon, I recommend having a look at the website of a company outside of the aquarium industry that produces the products directly. This will provide an immediate solution to the debate over whether or not there are different grades available. We don't currently have published data of this sort on our website, however in time that may change.
I will prepare some information on our carbon for you as soon as time allows. This is a very busy time of year for us and time is allocated to trade shows and other industry events presently, but I will give it my best effort to get the information for you within the next two to three weeks.
We don't sell products directly to consumers, as this would undermine relationships with retailers and wholesalers that we have worked many years to build. I would recommend contacting a retailer such as Champion Lighting and Supply, outside of Philadelphia, and inquiring about pricing for sacks of our carbon; they should be able to get the product drop-shipped from us with no problem. Keep in mind that any retailer should be able to get the product drop-shipped by going through their distributor, however I have found that distributors rarely want to hassle with such a transaction; this is why I recommend Champion in this instance.
Thanks again for your interest. I will try to get the necessary information for you as soon as possible, and in the meantime should you have any questions or comments please feel free to contact me.
Kindest regards,
Chris Brightwell
CR Brightwell
Marine Scientist
Northeast Regional Sales
Kent Marine, Inc.
Hi Joe,
Thanks for your inquiry. There are indeed differences in the grades of activated carbon available in the aquarium market. Some are honestly very effective, and some are not. Effectiveness in this sense would essentially come down to the ability to remove organic compounds from the system with regards to the actual amount of carbon used keeping time and flow rate constant for all samples. In addition, the carbon should have a relatively negligible effect on the pH of the water and preferably would release little to no measurable phosphate; these last two points are not so much a measurement of effectiveness, but rather are the types of qualities that we as hobbyists look for in an activated carbon. If you're interested in getting some basic information regarding the characteristics of different grades of activated carbon, I recommend having a look at the website of a company outside of the aquarium industry that produces the products directly. This will provide an immediate solution to the debate over whether or not there are different grades available. We don't currently have published data of this sort on our website, however in time that may change.
I will prepare some information on our carbon for you as soon as time allows. This is a very busy time of year for us and time is allocated to trade shows and other industry events presently, but I will give it my best effort to get the information for you within the next two to three weeks.
We don't sell products directly to consumers, as this would undermine relationships with retailers and wholesalers that we have worked many years to build. I would recommend contacting a retailer such as Champion Lighting and Supply, outside of Philadelphia, and inquiring about pricing for sacks of our carbon; they should be able to get the product drop-shipped from us with no problem. Keep in mind that any retailer should be able to get the product drop-shipped by going through their distributor, however I have found that distributors rarely want to hassle with such a transaction; this is why I recommend Champion in this instance.
Thanks again for your interest. I will try to get the necessary information for you as soon as possible, and in the meantime should you have any questions or comments please feel free to contact me.
Kindest regards,
Chris Brightwell
CR Brightwell
Marine Scientist
Northeast Regional Sales
Kent Marine, Inc.
Syris
FishboyBill
Joefitz,
Some carbon info.http://www.pets-warehouse.com/carbon.htm
Id be interested but I like Marineland's BlackDiamond
Some carbon info.http://www.pets-warehouse.com/carbon.htm
Id be interested but I like Marineland's BlackDiamond
joefitz
Non-member
Unfortunately, I have yet to find any industry articles that provide carbon specifications that the manufacturers use to describe their products, and therefore, I have no way of knowing what Kent or Marineland's carbon really is... I don't think many/any of the aquarium industry chemical vendors are manufacturing the carbon -- I think most/all of them are simply repackaging carbon from other manufacturers. If we knew the specifications of one of the carbons we like, we'd be able to save ourselves quite a bit of money.
I did a little research on GAC and unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any scientific studies that helped me make a decision on what specifications would be best for our tanks. The articles you reference provide some basic information but don't appear to be very rigorous (nor have any of the other resources I've found) and more than anything point out how little solid information is out there addressing the use of GAC in our tanks (although I do appreciate the links nonetheless).
As an FYI, my initial inquiry to Kent asked for supporting documentation to their claim that their reef GAC product is "the best available carbon for a reef tank" or whatever nonesense they print on their label. They were not able to provide any support for the claim whatsoever, nor do I think they have any (most likely text some marketing guy thought sounded really compelling and "hey, I'm a marketing guy so who cares if any of the statements I make have any basis in reality"). It is the kind of action and attitude that makes me never want to buy another Kent product.
Anyway, sorry about the rant. If anyone has information about the actual specifications for the carbon used in any of the reef GAC products being offered today I'd love to hear it. Or information about what sized particles we are trying to remove from our tanks in addition to what sized particulars are most effectively removed by various specifications of carbon.
I did a little research on GAC and unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any scientific studies that helped me make a decision on what specifications would be best for our tanks. The articles you reference provide some basic information but don't appear to be very rigorous (nor have any of the other resources I've found) and more than anything point out how little solid information is out there addressing the use of GAC in our tanks (although I do appreciate the links nonetheless).
As an FYI, my initial inquiry to Kent asked for supporting documentation to their claim that their reef GAC product is "the best available carbon for a reef tank" or whatever nonesense they print on their label. They were not able to provide any support for the claim whatsoever, nor do I think they have any (most likely text some marketing guy thought sounded really compelling and "hey, I'm a marketing guy so who cares if any of the statements I make have any basis in reality"). It is the kind of action and attitude that makes me never want to buy another Kent product.
Anyway, sorry about the rant. If anyone has information about the actual specifications for the carbon used in any of the reef GAC products being offered today I'd love to hear it. Or information about what sized particles we are trying to remove from our tanks in addition to what sized particulars are most effectively removed by various specifications of carbon.
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There is an article somewhere that gives some results on the most common brands of carbon used in aquariums but I tried to find it today and couldn't. The links I found were dead.
Boomer over at reefcentral had referenced it a few times in the past so I've asked him if he knew of another place you can find it.
If you do a search in the chemistry forum at reef central there is much discussion on GAC and what it is and how it works and the different types available.
After reading some stuff I started using 2 little fishies brand because it was the cheapest and worked as well as the more expensive GAC.
Boomer over at reefcentral had referenced it a few times in the past so I've asked him if he knew of another place you can find it.
If you do a search in the chemistry forum at reef central there is much discussion on GAC and what it is and how it works and the different types available.
After reading some stuff I started using 2 little fishies brand because it was the cheapest and worked as well as the more expensive GAC.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2982363#post2982363
Randy linked the articles I was talking about.
Randy linked the articles I was talking about.
joefitz
Non-member
The first one in the "list of 3" had a some helpful background information. Unfortunately, the author also suggested that the only real way to evaluate the effectiveness of a given GAC product is to test it on your own system. I'm guessing our systems are similar enough that we could use results in a representative fashion, but again, we'd need someone to come up with and complete a scientific analysis so that we figure out which product is best for our purposes. And again, I still don't feel like I have the right information to be able to place an order from a manufacturer.
I have a feeling none of this is going to change very much over the next five years, as it seems most people are probably in my same bought (either not sophisticated enough to develop and execute the analysis or too lazy). Such is life I suppose.
Thanks again for the link though, one of those articles definitely filled in a few holes for me.
I have a feeling none of this is going to change very much over the next five years, as it seems most people are probably in my same bought (either not sophisticated enough to develop and execute the analysis or too lazy). Such is life I suppose.
Thanks again for the link though, one of those articles definitely filled in a few holes for me.
OP
OP
jacko
Coral Curator
I am convinced how much damage we would do if we used 'the wrong' manufacturer. Of course, I have no idea what goes into the production of activated carbon, and I realize that pH and phosphate are not good. But I feel that the effects may not be too serious in magnitude. I will try to do a little research on it....when I have an hour, but I am not yet opposed to using an unknown manufacturer. I'll start, though, by finding out who manufactures the "reef-safe" brands that we use.
Scuba_Dave
Non-member
sure
