are LFS's necessary for the hobby, or not???

[tonka]

Without an LFS I would not be in this hobby. I used to take far too much advice from LFS employees and over time I have found ways to educate myself and separate good advice, bad advice, and useless advice. I like the personal interaction at the point of sale when I buy items. There are things I will buy online and others I buy in brick and mortar stores most of the time the item I have saved a few bucks on wasn't an item the local store would make a whole lot of money on anyhow. Bob the RC hobby is a great example. However I do have to place some of the blame on the retailers themselves when they go out of business. Times change and business changes when the cheese is moved we need to pay attention.

 

[HuuTa]

Without an LFS I would not be in this hobby. I used to take far too much advice from LFS employees and over time I have found ways to educate myself and separate good advice, bad advice, and useless advice. I like the personal interaction at the point of sale when I buy items. There are things I will buy online and others I buy in brick and mortar stores most of the time the item I have saved a few bucks on wasn't an item the local store would make a whole lot of money on anyhow. Bob the RC hobby is a great example. However I do have to place some of the blame on the retailers themselves when they go out of business. Times change and business changes when the cheese is moved we need to pay attention.

well said.nothing beats seeing things in person.u can look at all the video u want but most will not take up this hobby untill they see it in person.I started this hobby with fresh water going to Skipton 14 years ago.

 

[Bobbofin]

Without an LFS I would not be in this hobby. I used to take far too much advice from LFS employees and over time I have found ways to educate myself and separate good advice, bad advice, and useless advice.

The problem with advice is that everyone has an opinion no matter what the subject. Also, there so many differant ways to approach this hobby. I run an inch of sand on my bottom, no fuge in my sump, Bio-pellet and carbon reactors, a MP40 pump. Another person might go skimmerless, with a mud fuge and algae turf scrubber. So when you ask someone for advice they are coming at things from a totally differant perspective. After 21 years I have waded through this sea of information for information that pertains to me whether that be online forums or a LFS. The Fish Nook in Acton believes in no skimmers and miralce mud refugiums. His tanks look great. I would not ask him for advice on skimmers nor would I throw him under the bus for mis-information.

 

[Bruno]

WOW THESE THREADS JUST KILL ME! I can't sit back and watch any more.

 

[Bobbofin]

WOW THESE THREADS JUST KILL ME! I can't sit back and watch any more.

Actually, makes me very angry when 95% of the clubs LFS sponsors are thrown under the bus. Several of them are my friends.

 

[FOXYB]

Actually, makes me very angry when 95% of the clubs LFS sponsors are thrown under the bus. Several of them are my friends.

^^^^1+ I can honestly say I wouldnt have a tank or be on brs without lfs. I also wouldn't have some of the friends I have from owners/employees to a lot of the people I've meet on here

 

[jimrawr]

I think everyone can have a correct opinion on this topic. There are some LFS that I am really happy I have around me because the owners are informed, give you unbiased opinions even if you arent about to buy something, and keep healthy livestock. Then there are the LFS, as bad as it sounds, that I do wish would go out of business. Everytime I go into certain stores, I see dead fish in every single holding tank sitting at the bottom and I know the LFS doesnt give a rats a** about it. The tanks are disgusting, not well kept, and the live stock perish because of that. These stores SHOULD NOT be in business because they are dealing with live animals. Now for the stores that I value, I am really glad they are around. I count on one or two stores for all my live stock because I know they dont/wouldnt sell you a sick fish. I also use them for drygoods when the prices arent too far out of line with online. I wont spend an extra $30 on a $150 item just to buy locally.. 5-10% is reasonable especially if you can get that item same day and not have to wait for it to come by mail.

Overall for me life in this hobby would be pretty miserable without these couple good LFS around me. I wish there was a good LFS closer to me because I have to travel a decent distance to visit them. Dartmouth, MA could really use a good LFS if anyone is interested As far as the original question, I do think LFS are VERY necessary to this hobby. If they were gone so would probably 50% of reefkeepers.

 

[jt628]

I think the point mst are trying to make about LFS, Is 80% of them are not educated and it's just a "job'... as I stated before... Of All the LFS in New England, I can count on one hand those who actually care and are not "snake oil salesman" and actually take pride in their products!!! LFS are absolutely necessary for Equipment. And MOST have not the first clue as to how to care for the critters.... However there are a handful that REALLY know what they are talking about and refuse to sell livestock that will not make it... there is no need to point out who the places are because most of us know which LFS I am Referring to.

The point is Do no go for advice to a good majority of them due to lack of experience!!!!

JMO

 

[Bruno]

Jeez my 2year old still calls out Ed's name when we go to Skiptons. Plus it's a good way to hide money from your wife then spend it. No paper trail.

LFS=SPONSERS=BRS

 

[delta]

Plus it's a good way to hide money from your wife then spend it. No paper trail.

LFS=SPONSERS=BRS

You can always spot a true reefkeeper when you see one

 

[Bobbofin]

I wont spend an extra $30 on a $150 item just to buy locally.. 5-10% is reasonable especially if you can get that item same day and not have to wait for it to come by mail.

I totally agree. I am willing to pay a little more for personal service after the sale and so my LFS will still be there. I am willing to pay about 15% more for an item than what it would cost for the item online including shipping. So if I can buy an item online for $100 including shipping I'm willing to pay $115 at the LFS so my $$$ stay in this region supporting business and families locally.

 

[Mr.Rodrigo502]

I totally agree. I am willing to pay a little more for personal service after the sale and so my LFS will still be there. I am willing to pay about 15% more for an item than what it would cost for the item online including shipping. So if I can buy an item online for $100 including shipping I'm willing to pay $115 at the LFS so my $$$ stay in this region supporting business and families locally.

Very well said.....your a positive man! I think the same way...... For example .... A week ago I ran out of salt and salinity was low.... I wasn't going to waite for ups to deliver my salt... I had to go to the lfs and purchased some salt.... Cost me a little more than what I get it online but hey it was an emergency.... I weather pay a little more.. Knowing I'm helping my LFS than losing tons of money on coral and stressing my fish......thanks to my lfs I'm in this hobby and is always there for anything!

 

[tonka]

The problem with advice is that everyone has an opinion no matter what the subject. Also, there so many differant ways to approach this hobby.

I agree. So for better clarification I used to obtain far too much advice from too many sources and try to implement it all.... I have since learned to be selective and find other info on the subject at hand and sort out which info best fits my situation. A little trial and error goes a long way here.

I think everyone can have a correct opinion on this topic. There are some LFS that I am really happy I have around me because the owners are informed, give you unbiased opinions even if you arent about to buy something, and keep healthy livestock. Then there are the LFS, as bad as it sounds, that I do wish would go out of business. Everytime I go into certain stores, I see dead fish in every single holding tank sitting at the bottom and I know the LFS doesnt give a rats a** about it. The tanks are disgusting, not well kept, and the live stock perish because of that. These stores SHOULD NOT be in business because they are dealing with live animals. Now for the stores that I value, I am really glad they are around. I count on one or two stores for all my live stock because I know they dont/wouldnt sell you a sick fish. I also use them for drygoods when the prices arent too far out of line with online. I wont spend an extra $30 on a $150 item just to buy locally.. 5-10% is reasonable especially if you can get that item same day and not have to wait for it to come by mail.

Overall for me life in this hobby would be pretty miserable without these couple good LFS around me. I wish there was a good LFS closer to me because I have to travel a decent distance to visit them. Dartmouth, MA could really use a good LFS if anyone is interested As far as the original question, I do think LFS are VERY necessary to this hobby. If they were gone so would probably 50% of reefkeepers.

Well said we often forget that the livestock we purchase in alive and deserves to be treated with some care.

I think the point mst are trying to make about LFS, Is 80% of them are not educated and it's just a "job'...

JMO

It does stink when you bump into an employee that is just counting the hours to Friday. But that's the same in any business. I want to be treated well no matter where I do business.

 

[mannix]

No they are not needed and no they are not a dying breed. People love there lfs. I go to skiptons every week it is a fun time. It is not always what we need but what we want.

 

[nicks387]

If there were no local fish stores there would be no hobby. Period. This is true for many reasons. There would be far less people in the hobby as most start with the lfs, probably no forums that have helped so many people, as they need sponsors, and probably no online stores anymore as the number of reefers would never be where it is today. I buy 80% of all my stuff from local fish stores. All of my fish come from local fish stores. I want to see its healthy, I don't care if the online guys will give me a credit if the fish dies. I prefer the fish lives. Many online stores are the ones here to make a buck, nobody asks them for advice, and you don't see what there tanks look like. I disagree that good lfs are few and far between too, they all have something good to offer, many people will go to one store, maybe on an off day, and then go home and trash the store. Its sad. I have been to every lfs around, many times over, and every one of them will have days that they have low inventory or have tanks that are not 100% show worthy, everyone here has days there own tanks are not show worthy too. That doesn't mean the store is always like that. As for advice, I can't tell you how many times I see "experts" on these forums giving advice that is just flat out wrong, just because they heard somebody else say the same thing. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH BEFORE YOU BUY, you will certainly not get better advice from an online store then from a lfs. My lfs will match or come close enough to the online stores on almost every item. He will hold fish for me till they are eating or healthy, no online store is holding anything for anyone. My lfs will get in anything I ask him to and usually is the same price as the online stores. The only reason why I can see any advantage to buying online would be to try and save some money, but I can honestly say that being a steady, regular customer at my lfs has saved me more money then I would have if I bought online.

 

[Aquaman_68]

u need local support from LFS to keep u interested for the long haul....True brick & morter shops that care about u as well as their business...as far as margins in purchasing with a lfs instead of online.....25% above is the maximum I'm willing to pay as opposed to online prices . I'm in the automotive trade...normal markup margins for most shops on parts is 100%...(some r even higher) I run a 25 % markup on my parts. But for most shops that is not the case...all their concerned with is numbers not the customers best interest. Quality OE parts in my trade & the true margins r much smaller than aftermarket...(which on AM parts u can't go into suggested list cause that is not even an accurate number)

Back to the question at hand.....LFS brick & morter stores have overheads that they can't overcome just by making random dry goods sales...They need support on drygoods sales as well as live goods...If ur willing to go online to purchase ur dry goods ur pretty much putting the nail in the coffin to the local shops u like... The big chains don't care about u & most can survive cause they buy at much higher volumes than the smaller lfs stores....

Support ur LFS!! Even at the least....if all of us annually purchased half of our dry goods local that would b the difference from these local places we visit & love from closing!!

Ponder what it would b like to not have them around & have to b forced to make decisions & purchases from pictures online & online recomendations from claimed buyers....& not seeing the product first hand to the touch!!

This is a big problem & it is not getting better & that is why ur seeing so many big brick & morter companies disappearing & also forced to file chapter 11 after being in business for decades upon decades!!!

How do u expect small mom & pop LFS's to survive??

couple lincoln's from me

 

[dz6t]

I have been in this reef hobby since 2004. I used to buy from several online stores. I can say I have a beautiful tank in show quality today and EVERY corals in the tank are from local sources except one aqua-cultured acan from LiveAquaria.
All the corals I bought over the years from those online stores (except the above mentioned aquacultured acan) WERE DEAD! They did not last!
Those corals from most online stores are wild caught, chop shop, transhiped corals.

 

[aries426]

I feel the same as others. I don't think many of us would be in this hobby without LFS. Not many people are going to start a hobby from looking at it on the internet, you want to see it first hand. Another thing is some people want to see the fish or coral that you are buying, sure there are wysiwyg pics, but it's not the same. You want to support your local business and if you do go to the right ones there are very knowledgeable people there who do steer you in the right direction regardless of the price.

Well that's my 02. Good luck

Thanks Chad

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[dz6t]

I think if we can get the service we want at the price we want to pay from LFS, we should spend our money there.
But, I dont think we need to shop at a LFS just to support it. LFS should earn our business, not the other way around.

 

[WoodRiverTroutBum]

Sorry for bumping such an old thread but my opinions were changed today. I visited a few shops today with intentions of spending some good money so I can get everything I need to get my new tank going. I ended up coming home with a $30 bag of sand and spending more than that on fuel. I love buying local but absolutely refuse to pay sometimes DOUBLE for what I can get something for online. I don't mind spending a little more and taking an hour or so drive to buy local but double the price is INSANE. I paid an extra $10 for a $200 skimmer and was happy to do it but to spend $140 on a ATO that is $100 online or $110 for a pump that is $80 online just won't happen. In that case, I may as well sit at home and spend the money on next day shipping and still end up paying less. I guess this is more of a rant but since my opinion has changed vastly since my last post in this thread, I thought I would share. I agree with dz6t, we don't owe it to them to support them, they need to earn our business.