In Basement sump Design

mloebl

Non-member
After a couple of months of trying to design a sump, I finally had my "brilliant" ;) idea of the day (especially after seeing pics of GTs setup.) I live in a townhouse condo with my own private basement. Currently I have a 75g aga that seperates my living room from my dining room, and is raised about 8" to be at the level of my couch in the living room (it's a nice effect.) I've been wanting to add a sump, but didn't want to crowd behind the tank as my dining room table is about ~6' away from the back of the tank. I want to use at least a 30g tank (if not bigger) for the sump, and it won't fit neatly under the 75g as the custom stand I inherited as the doors are to small. It dawned on me last night that I have 2 central air vents on each side of the tank; one is the actually output vent, the other is the return. The return vent duct in the basement, due to incompetence by the builders, has a 1/2" x 4" gap where it joins the ducting to the furnace where I already have been running a cable to monitor the tank temperature to my homeauto server in the basement. This gap is also almost directly below the vent as well.

I was thinking that wouldn't take much to cut a flap where this gap is in the ducting in the basement and bend it back and run some tubing thru it straight down to a sump, sealing any gaps. A flap in the ducting is easier to bend back and seal when I move rather than drilling holes in the floor/walls, and the vent convers are $9 at HD so no big deal to replace. I would probably use flexible tubing as it will have to take a couple slight bends down and then back up for the return. I would have to pump about 10' max (she thinks 6') based on estimations we did this morning without a tape measure as we discussed it. Origionally I had picked up a used Mag7 pump that I was going to do for the return that was going to be submerged in a 29g tank I had picked up, however that pump won't be able to handle that height. I am thinking now maybe a mag18 in maybe at least a 55g sump.

Any thoughts/feedback? Thanks!

-Mike
 
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Hmmm.... cool air blowing across the plumbing in the summer, and warm air in the winter. This could work out to your benefit and take a small load off your chiller and heater.

Steve
 
I have a very simlar set like you intend to install, a 75gal show tank as a wall divider with a 55gal sump/refuge, i use a mag 9.5 but would have gone bigger if the money was there at the time. I made my life easy and just drilled the floor but i have no conern about resale value, and like an easy life. I find it works very well as you can do all the water changes and testing downstairs and not risk or worry about any small spills. Either the marine depot or Drs foster and smith site has the flow rate with head height table on them for the mag pumps.

Good luck John
 
Any way you can do a basement sump, I say go for it! A smaller Iwaki pump would work well..but I am biased. I think they are the most reliable pump there is. We drilled through the floor a few years ago...best thing we have done. Maint. is so much easier..stayes cooler in the summer...If you spill a little H2O, no big deal....
 
Ok, now that I've been reading a bit, I am thinking the Gen-X PCX40. Now I am trying to decide about plumbing sizes. The tank is a 75G reef tank and the sump is going to be at least 29g, if not larger (I want to find a 55g), with a refugium as well. If I run the calculator at the extremes with the Gen-X at 14' head, with a 6' horiz run, and a 1" line, looking at over 600gph. I'm thinking a 1.5" drain, and a 1" return. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

-Mike
 
I had a gen mak 4 as my return first, although adequate i was not fully pleased. You are better off upgrading to a larger more efficent pump
 
Sounds great. Definitely go with an external pump. It'll save money, and above all, headaches in the long run. Do you really have 14 feet of head though? Is the sump going to be on the floor? Put the sump on a 2x4 stand in the basement, and you'll save electricity and improve flow with your return pump.

I think your plumbing dimensions sound fine, but I'd hold out for a 55g sump. Doing all that work for a 29g isn't worth it IMO.
 
NateHanson said:
Sounds great. Definitely go with an external pump. It'll save money, and above all, headaches in the long run. Do you really have 14 feet of head though? Is the sump going to be on the floor? Put the sump on a 2x4 stand in the basement, and you'll save electricity and improve flow with your return pump.

I think your plumbing dimensions sound fine, but I'd hold out for a 55g sump. Doing all that work for a 29g isn't worth it IMO.

Thanks, I'm thinking that as well. My guess is that it will be closer to 10'. Since I raised the tank it's about 5' high from the floor, so that's where I lot of the height comes from. Though I just realized the biggest flexible tubing I can get is 1" (well 1 1/4 ID from Drs F/S) at least from looking online. From what I understand, I should have a larger drain than return. However so far all I can find is 1.5" MPT to 1" insert adapters. Based on where it is, flexible tubing is going to be my best route over doing pvc. Maybe Home Depot might have some larger tubing as well as mpt/ftp to insert adapters?

-Mike
 
What you want to use is Flexible PVC. Flexible tubing and barb-adaptors are a liability in my opinion because of the constriction they cause at each barb. You can get 1 and 1 1/2" Flex PVC online at Savko, or from Lowes (a bit more expensive though).
 
NateHanson said:
What you want to use is Flexible PVC. Flexible tubing and barb-adaptors are a liability in my opinion because of the constriction they cause at each barb. You can get 1 and 1 1/2" Flex PVC online at Savko, or from Lowes (a bit more expensive though).

Cool! Didn't realize there was such a thing :). I'm assuming it's normal slip size for adapters as well and will work with the same way with the pvc solvents?

Going to have to send you a thank you card by the time this is all done for all the help so far. :D

-Mike
 
G.T said:
I had a gen mak 4 as my return first, although adequate i was not fully pleased. You are better off upgrading to a larger more efficent pump

GT,

What kind of pump are you thinking I should use instead?

Thanks,

-Mike
 
THe Mag pumps are a joke for this sort of situation. Go with a pressure rated job. (gen-x,iwaki,etc)

Simple solution to drain pipes being too small. Run 2 of them...although with 10 feet of head, your drains are going to be able to pull some serious water. I agree with Nate though (I do most of the time). Its not worth it for a 29. Get yourself a cheap 55, or even better, one of those big stock tanks. The more volume you can get, the better.
 
I whole heartily agree with using an external pump. I think a mag would be a complete waste of money and time with this much head. I barely trust my last remaining mag pump to mix my salt. I would also suggest a Rubbermaid Stock tank as stated above. You can get a 100g, 150g, or pretty much whatever you want.......
 
IMO that Gen-X should be fine for a 75. I have a 110 and have had no problems with the flow and a 1.5” drain. The pump uses only 95 watts. You wont find a more efficient pump with that flow, that price and 22+ feet of head. Your circulation pump should provide between 5 and 10 (max) gph times your tank volum flow through your sump. Other good pumps (but more $$$) in this category are Blueline HD 55, Iwaki 55 RT, Velocith T4, Pan World 150PS, Poseidon PS4 (same as Velocith T4)
 
I agree that it's hard to find a more efficient and reliable pump than the Genx Mak 4 in my experience. And you can get them new for less than $120!

The flex PVC fits with standard Sch 40 fittings, and the normal solvent glue worked fine for me, although there is a specific flex PVC glue. I haven't used it.

Nate
 
Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the feedback. I've definintely ruled out the Mag, and leaning towards the MK40. Last question; what is a rubber maid stock tank? Are these the kind with the fitted plastic hoods or something else entirely? Not sure if I've ever seen one. Can I do a refugium in one of these or should I do that in a seperate tank that is in-line (I have an old 29g that's why I was origionally considering that.)

Thanks!

-Mike
 
These are livestock watering tanks (for horses to drink out of). Places like Agway carry them in more rural areas. They're big heavy grey plastic tanks, usually oval-shaped.
 
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