Stumped and at my wits end

[reefkeeper2]

A week ago I noticed my gigantea anemone wasn't looking as good as usual. My elegance coral likewise was closed up. I have blue, green and yellow Tonga mushrooms that had gaping mouths. All of my other corals looked fine if not excellent. All the sps have great polyp extension and color. Gorgonians, clams, zoas, snails, gsp, torches, hammer all fine. I did a water change and started using a lot of carbon. Over the next several days the three affected animals got worse. The anemone shrunk to a quarter of it's size. The tonga mushrooms started to fall apart and the elegance shut up tight. I increased the water changes, turned on the UV and got some PolyFilters. I sent out for an ICP test. I eventually changed the entire tank volume of water. It looked like things might be turning around yesterday but today things look as bad as ever. I can't for the life of me think of what could affect these three animals so severely but leave the rest of the tank looking healthy. I should get the ICP tests back in another day or so and if there is no answer from that simply don't know what else to do. Have a peek at my poor mushrooms. I'm trying to get them to grow over the back wall of the tank. Now I hope just to get some to survive.

 

[dz6t]

Hi Paul
I believe it is nutrient related. Can you target feed the elegant and anemone with finely grounded raw salmon to see if they bounce back? Another thing I can think about is that if there was dramatic pH up swing before this happened?

 

[wdebenedettojr]

Agree with dong. I bet it has to do with nutrients. I would highly doubt anything chemically is imbalanced bc the sps wouldn’t be ok

 

[reefkeeper2]

Both the elegance and the anemone were eating. I never fed the mushrooms in all the years I've had them. There has been a upswing in pH but it never exceeds 8.4 Daily pH swing is usually 8.1-8.3

 

[dz6t]

if you are using commercial frozen food, just in case, would it be possible that the frozen food contains some sort of harmful bacteria and or virus? I have seen carpet anemone killed by bad frozen food. I only feed home made frozen that I made from Market Basket ingredients when needed.

 

[PSU4ME]

Paul what was the PH at before? I went from 7.8-7.9 up to 8.25 or so over a week due to a co2 scrubber and I had unexplained losses 3-4 weeks after that.

 

[dz6t]

0.3 to 0.4 pH jump is very stressful for lps and anemone, sps like acro are fine with it, birdsnest and plating monti are not so forgiving and vary by which type. I am not referring to the daily swings of pH, I am referring to the average pH change.

 

[reefkeeper2]

Paul what was the PH at before? I went from 7.8-7.9 up to 8.25 or so over a week due to a co2 scrubber and I had unexplained losses 3-4 weeks after that.

I think the low was 7.9 and the high was 8.1. Will they just adjust or should I bring it down a bit?

 

[reefkeeper2]

if you are using commercial frozen food, just in case, would it be possible that the frozen food contains some sort of harmful bacteria and or virus? I have seen carpet anemone killed by bad frozen food. I only feed home made frozen that I made from Market Basket ingredients when needed.

I don't think it's the food. I feed the anemone very infrequently. The elegance gets mysis. I think it much more likely your right about the pH.

 

[dz6t]

I will like to explain this in a very unscientific way and may cause some scientists to puke on their dinner tables and reach for pitchforks. Same reaction that I have when watching some YouTube videos.

First of all, the majority of inorganic carbon in sea water are in three forms: carbon dioxide, bicarbonate and carbonate. When pH changes, the three components shifts from one to another. Due to the high pH of sea water, when CO2 gets into the water from the air, most of them transforms into bicarbonate. Then when pH goes up, more bicarbonate turns into carbonate.

Coral requires inorganic carbon to do two important things. photosynthesis and calcification (in the case of stony coral). But coral can only takes in bicarbonate from the water. At pH around 8, majority of the inorganic carbon in the sea water is in bicarbonate form. When pH goes up, bicarbonate drops and carbonate rise. So coral needs to cope with the lower availability of bicarbonate when significant average daily pH jumps up, Anemone and LPS has much lager amount of living tissues and requires more inorganic carbon for photosynthesis, hence have a harder time to cope with the pH jump.

2. Up to 75% of the inorganic carbon that used in photosynthesis and calcification by coral is NOT coming directly from the surrounding water, it is coming from the biological activity inside the coral. So when a coral can’t get enough of inorganic carbon and store it for such biological activity, it consumes its own fresh, that is why a large anemone will eat itself to a dime size.

 

[reefkeeper2]

Normal seawater pH is around 8.3. I just checked the pH of the tank and it's 8.3 which will be the high for the day. Should I wait to see if the animals adjust or should I let the pH drop a bit?

 

[dz6t]

It is the jump that can cause issues, once the coral get used to the current pH, they will do just fine. I will say just leave it alone.

 

[PSU4ME]

If it were me I’d keep it stable and ride it out

 

[dz6t]

If it were me I’d keep it stable and ride it out

Exactly!

 

[reefkeeper2]

I agree, will do.