Gauging Interest-Magnesium Chloride Pooled Order
- Thread starter Pat H.
- Start date
- Status
Greg Hiller
BRS Moderator
>How many bags are we targetting here before we buy?<
Depends partly on shipping, and what the cost of the bags ends up being. Many will drop out if the cost goes very high.
Depends partly on shipping, and what the cost of the bags ends up being. Many will drop out if the cost goes very high.
Lunchbucket
Non-member
well fellas i might have to retract my placement for one bag. i have someone in NJ that is getting it and can get it w/out shipping to them. so i will pay quite a bit less. i'll keep you posted but i'm on the fence about getting a bag
sorry hope this doesnt' mess anythign up
Lunchbucket
sorry hope this doesnt' mess anythign up
Lunchbucket
Greg Hiller
BRS Moderator
Here's the shipping costs, but I'll mention they are approximate. One pallet is ~$406, two pallets ~$656. Cost of the chemical is the same $360 for a pallet. This all works out to about $19.15/bag for one pallet, and $17.20/bag for two pallets. Someone in the BRS is associated with a trucking company and is trying to see if they can help us out.
I am also evaluating the sample of MgCl2 that I received from a bag someone picked up at a local hardware store that apparently is from the same source. Upon physical inspection it looks nearly identical to what we got in the last group buy, but perhaps a smaller crystal size. I don't see any significant foreign particles in it. I'll try and do some tests in the lab.
I am also evaluating the sample of MgCl2 that I received from a bag someone picked up at a local hardware store that apparently is from the same source. Upon physical inspection it looks nearly identical to what we got in the last group buy, but perhaps a smaller crystal size. I don't see any significant foreign particles in it. I'll try and do some tests in the lab.
Shallowwaters
Non-member
I'll volunteer a drop-off location again. The same commercial location we used for the calcium oxide, eh, hmm, I mean calcium hydroxide. 
Shallowwaters
Non-member
Just an idea (don't shoot the messenger), if we make it a 2 bag minimum order, we would be at 64 bags - 16 short of two pallets.
littlep93056
Non-member
I'll take one bag , please!
OP
OP
Pat H.
(Previously PHreef)
Mark, thanks for the delivery location offer. Not sure if we'll need it this time, but it's good to have a back up.
It wouldn't bother me to have a two bag minimum, but I don't want to make the decision. If it comes to that maybe we could have a poll or a vote somehow.
It wouldn't bother me to have a two bag minimum, but I don't want to make the decision. If it comes to that maybe we could have a poll or a vote somehow.
OP
OP
Pat H.
(Previously PHreef)
3 Phreef
1 robilium
2 ltelus
1 Kevin McG
1 nhbloke (maybe 2)
2 delta
1 NeO
2 reefdude
1 Ray (maybe 2)
3 Greg Hiller
1 97vmax
5 Skinpuppi
1 nichols41
2 ReeferMedic
1 RobB
3 skyedolphan
1 Shallowwaters
1 howman
1 TOOMANYFISH
1 steevareno
1 Moe_K
1 merk1_99
1 Richard
1 Lunchbucket
1 ladi
2 starrfish
1 JayG
1 rharlow
1 jebar777
1 Troubleman
1 clamm
1 Reefdom
1 littlep93056
Total: 48 (and 2 maybes)
1 robilium
2 ltelus
1 Kevin McG
1 nhbloke (maybe 2)
2 delta
1 NeO
2 reefdude
1 Ray (maybe 2)
3 Greg Hiller
1 97vmax
5 Skinpuppi
1 nichols41
2 ReeferMedic
1 RobB
3 skyedolphan
1 Shallowwaters
1 howman
1 TOOMANYFISH
1 steevareno
1 Moe_K
1 merk1_99
1 Richard
1 Lunchbucket
1 ladi
2 starrfish
1 JayG
1 rharlow
1 jebar777
1 Troubleman
1 clamm
1 Reefdom
1 littlep93056
Total: 48 (and 2 maybes)
littlep93056
Non-member
Where will we have to p/u the bags
Greg Hiller
BRS Moderator
Although I'll not speak for everyone, I am probably OUT of this group buy. Reason...I believe we have a local source of the same material at the same price.
I'll post more when I know more details. I need to check on one thing.
I'll post more when I know more details. I need to check on one thing.
Greg Hiller
BRS Moderator
Okay....so here's the deal. Patrick found a store in Amesbury that sells magnesium chloride (around $18/50lb bag). I'd seen it for sale many places, but the bags that I had seen were from a company in the US. That source might be fine, but without an analysis, I am very reluctant to use an icemelt grade of stuff in our tanks. The bags that Patrick found had the SAME source as our group buy, the Dead Sea Works in Israel (I'm not making any political statements here!).
Patrick sent me a sample of the stuff he purchased. It looks very similar in everyway to the stuff we purchased previously in our group buy. The only difference I could see was that the particle size was slightly smaller, put that could be due to lots of different things (how much the stuff was handled, where from the bag the stuff was taken, settling, etc.).
I tested a sample of the 'old' and 'new' lots of magnesium chloride for their ammonium content. In each case I got the same result as I did when I tested a long while back. Both were just at the limit of detection on the equipment I was using. So...worst case: if you were adding this to your tank and bumped up the Magnesium concentration 100 ppm you would be adding LESS than 0.05 ppm ammonium (not enough in a functioning reef tank, IMO, to have any effect, though I probably wouldn't add it to a culture of urchin larva ). I also compared both for pH and they came up about the same at 7.5 pH, this was immediately after prep in RO/DI water. I realize that MgCl2 in DI water has no buffering capacity, so the pH may drift, but I was please to see that the pH was not some crazy number.
Now....the material that is available in Amesbury is certainly not the same lot of material we purchased in the group buy. I am also not certain that it is of the same quality...I just don't know as I have no spec sheet. However, based on the test I performed, and my visual inspection of the stuff, I think that it is PROBABLY safe to use on a tank (DON'T sue me if you tank crashes after you use it please). It may be that the new material (icemelt grade) does not have the same level of quality control. So, if you mix up a batch and plan to use it in your tank, I would keep your eye out for any particulates in the stuff. To be safe you might want to prep the supplement in a clear container, let it sit and then carefully pour it into another container, hopefully leaving any settled particles (rust?, bits of debris?) behind.
Patrick took a photo of the front of the bag and I have posted it here:
The back looks like this, zoomed in on the important part of the back label:
Now, to confuse you all some more...I picked up a bag of Pelletized magnesium chloride from a hardware store in Danvers, also from the Dead Sea Works in Israel. This stuff clearly LOOKS different from the other stuff, but the bag is NEARLY the same (same color and label pattern), just says PELLETIZED on the front. I also for kicks ran this through my ammonium assay and pH. It also came out the same as the others. Still, I'm reluctant to use this simply due to the fact that it Looks different than the stuff we got from the group buy that I KNOW is good (I've used it on my tanks many times with no problems).
I understand that there are several pallets full of the stuff that Patrick sent me at the store in Amesbury. Please do not hoard!
AMESBURY INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY
24 HIGH STREET AMESBURY MA
978.388.1313
To prep your supplement use the following formula:
The formula below creates a magnesium supplement that does not significantly create an imbalance in any other anions in your tank's water. The anions in saltwater are chiefly chloride (Cl-) and sulfate (SO4-2). Bromine is also in there as an anion, but it's slow low that for many years salt manufacturers never even bothered to add it to their mixes, so leaving it out of this supplement is not a big deal at all. The basic formula is:
664 grams MgCl2.6H2O (this is what is at the hardware stores)
113 grams MgSO4.7H2O (Epsom salts, from the drug store costs $1.99 for 3 lbs)
plus enough DI water to make 1 gallon.
Adding this at the rate of about 10 ml/gallon of tank volume (in a stream of water where it will get mixed into the tank quickly) will increase the magnesium level in your tank by about 100 ppm. It's never a good idea to make changes too fast to a tank's water chemistry, so if your tank is low in magnesium by more than 100 ppm I'd still only add 10ml/gallon/day until you are back around 1250-1350 ppm. So, for instance, if your 100 gallon tank were 300 ppm low in magnesium, you'd need about 3 liters, or almost 1 gallon of this solution to get back into the proper range on magnesium.
To dose magnesium correctly you really need to measure it with a decent test kit. I've found the Salivert kit for magnesium to be pretty good and reasonably priced, FWIW.
Patrick sent me a sample of the stuff he purchased. It looks very similar in everyway to the stuff we purchased previously in our group buy. The only difference I could see was that the particle size was slightly smaller, put that could be due to lots of different things (how much the stuff was handled, where from the bag the stuff was taken, settling, etc.).
I tested a sample of the 'old' and 'new' lots of magnesium chloride for their ammonium content. In each case I got the same result as I did when I tested a long while back. Both were just at the limit of detection on the equipment I was using. So...worst case: if you were adding this to your tank and bumped up the Magnesium concentration 100 ppm you would be adding LESS than 0.05 ppm ammonium (not enough in a functioning reef tank, IMO, to have any effect, though I probably wouldn't add it to a culture of urchin larva
). I also compared both for pH and they came up about the same at 7.5 pH, this was immediately after prep in RO/DI water. I realize that MgCl2 in DI water has no buffering capacity, so the pH may drift, but I was please to see that the pH was not some crazy number. Now....the material that is available in Amesbury is certainly not the same lot of material we purchased in the group buy. I am also not certain that it is of the same quality...I just don't know as I have no spec sheet. However, based on the test I performed, and my visual inspection of the stuff, I think that it is PROBABLY safe to use on a tank (DON'T sue me if you tank crashes after you use it please). It may be that the new material (icemelt grade) does not have the same level of quality control. So, if you mix up a batch and plan to use it in your tank, I would keep your eye out for any particulates in the stuff. To be safe you might want to prep the supplement in a clear container, let it sit and then carefully pour it into another container, hopefully leaving any settled particles (rust?, bits of debris?) behind.
Patrick took a photo of the front of the bag and I have posted it here:
The back looks like this, zoomed in on the important part of the back label:
Now, to confuse you all some more...I picked up a bag of Pelletized magnesium chloride from a hardware store in Danvers, also from the Dead Sea Works in Israel. This stuff clearly LOOKS different from the other stuff, but the bag is NEARLY the same (same color and label pattern), just says PELLETIZED on the front. I also for kicks ran this through my ammonium assay and pH. It also came out the same as the others. Still, I'm reluctant to use this simply due to the fact that it Looks different than the stuff we got from the group buy that I KNOW is good (I've used it on my tanks many times with no problems).
I understand that there are several pallets full of the stuff that Patrick sent me at the store in Amesbury. Please do not hoard!
AMESBURY INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY
24 HIGH STREET AMESBURY MA
978.388.1313
To prep your supplement use the following formula:
The formula below creates a magnesium supplement that does not significantly create an imbalance in any other anions in your tank's water. The anions in saltwater are chiefly chloride (Cl-) and sulfate (SO4-2). Bromine is also in there as an anion, but it's slow low that for many years salt manufacturers never even bothered to add it to their mixes, so leaving it out of this supplement is not a big deal at all. The basic formula is:
664 grams MgCl2.6H2O (this is what is at the hardware stores)
113 grams MgSO4.7H2O (Epsom salts, from the drug store costs $1.99 for 3 lbs)
plus enough DI water to make 1 gallon.
Adding this at the rate of about 10 ml/gallon of tank volume (in a stream of water where it will get mixed into the tank quickly) will increase the magnesium level in your tank by about 100 ppm. It's never a good idea to make changes too fast to a tank's water chemistry, so if your tank is low in magnesium by more than 100 ppm I'd still only add 10ml/gallon/day until you are back around 1250-1350 ppm. So, for instance, if your 100 gallon tank were 300 ppm low in magnesium, you'd need about 3 liters, or almost 1 gallon of this solution to get back into the proper range on magnesium.
To dose magnesium correctly you really need to measure it with a decent test kit. I've found the Salivert kit for magnesium to be pretty good and reasonably priced, FWIW.
littlep93056
Non-member
Greg is there any place we could get a higher grade of magnesium chloride
OP
OP
Pat H.
(Previously PHreef)
A couple small corrections, the bags are $15.99/50 lbs and I was told they have 2 pallets of 48 bags each. So they basically have around 90 bags or so left.
I'm going to go with this local source myself. If someone wants to continue setting up this order, contact Greg or myself for the info.
I'm going to go with this local source myself. If someone wants to continue setting up this order, contact Greg or myself for the info.
littlep93056
Non-member
Why can't we get the same stuff as last time ?
Shallowwaters
Non-member
If only I knew where Amesbury is...
I think you reefers are all crazy. So much time over a bag of ice melt.
I think you reefers are all crazy. So much time over a bag of ice melt.
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